Big Ten Reaction Linkorama
by WCHBlog on Mar 22, 2011 1:13 AM PDT
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PrintScheduling All the talk in the aftermath of the announcement has been about a scheduling agreement between our new Big Ten overlords and the Left Behind, and rightfully so. Unfortunately, Todd Milewski, who has done a great job covering this story, dropped this into one of his stories:
Big programs like Wisconsin and Minnesota need to have 20 home games per season to make the financials work. So, with 14 non-conference games to work with, 10 of them are going to have to be at home.
If I'm not the first to call BS, then allow me to be the loudest. There's a big difference between "need to" and "want to". If those schools can't turn a profit selling 10,000 tickets to 16-18 home games--at $50 a pop for Minnesota season tickets, once "donation" costs are added in--not to mention all the extra TV money they're supposed to bring in because of this, then they are doing something seriously, seriously wrong.
Theoretically a scheduling agreement would address this, but the Big Ten teams are in a position to dictate terms on any deal, which means things are likely to be in their favor.
CHN's Adam Wodon is a bit disappointed this was announced before a scheduling agreement was in place, and is concerned about one every getting done.
Conference Tournament Apparently the feeling is that Michigan fans won't travel to Minneapolis/St. Paul for a conference tournament, and Minnesota fans won't travel to Detroit for a conference tournament, so the top idea as of now seems to be to hold the Big Ten conference tournament in Chicago, where fans of neither team will travel. That seems smart. I just can't see that being a huge attraction when those teams would likely have to travel the following weekend for the NCAA tournament, but I could be off. It would obviously be a huge advantage for Wisconsin, whose fans would likely outnumber opposing fans by about 200 to 1(perhaps literally). A better solution would be to let the league champion host. The big advantage of a power conference like this is that everyone would have a pretty acceptable building to host, and you'd actually have some atmosphere.
Realignment Alabama-Huntsville has already seen this as their opportunity at getting into the CCHA. I've never subscribed to the theory that the CCHA would reach out to UAH if they lost the Big Ten schools. The problem people had with UAH before is probably only exacerbated by the loss of the big CCHA schools by putting everyone else on even shakier financial footing. I still think keeping Huntsville out is the wrong decision, but I don't think this will be the push the rest of the league needs to let them in. There were Big Ten schools against letting UAH in, but I don't think they were the only thing keeping them from being in.
On the other hand, between UNO and the Big Ten schools, the CCHA will have lost the top four schools in average home attendance in a very short amount of time. UAH used to be in the middle of the pack in terms of CCHA attendance, and now they'd be fairly close to the top.
MGoBlog brings up the idea of bringing Niagara and Robert Morris into the CCHA. The problem with going east is that the CCHA is losing some of their more eastern members in Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. Niagara and Robert Morris are closer to most of the CCHA than Huntsville, though the difference between a 7-hour bus ride and 10-hour bus ride is pretty irrelevant--and even moreso when you consider most of the league would have to cross the border to bus to Niagara. Any difference in travel is probably canceled out by the fact that UAH is much stronger in terms of attendance than either of those two schools.
The really big thing those schools would have in their favor that UAH doesn't is that the CCHA would love to have a presence in the Buffalo and Pittsburgh hockey markets. Personally, I've always thought that was overrated. Ohio State's closeness to Pittsburgh has helped Ohio State, but how much has it helped Northern Michigan or Ferris State?
Sticking Around Bowling Green remains committed to keeping their program. Minnesota State's athletic director is optimistic this can work out, which , not coincidentally, makes me all the less optimistic this can work out. Both commissioners made statements on the matter. We'll what those little guys have to say when the Big Ten schools explain to them that they just can't make ends meet without playing over 70% of their non-conference games at home.
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If you’re talking hypothetical attendance re: UAH, than your correct. However, they were a push last year:
48: RMU – 1374
49: UAH – 1278
50: Niagara – 1125
In 2010 however:
44: UAH – 1866
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50: Niagara – 1110
51: RMU – 970
Clearly RMU got a bump from playing regional schools. UAH was hurt greatly from the terrible schedule and Niagara was flat. In the CCHA? All three could get a bump, but facility-wise, it’s no contest. UAH, with their rink getting a much needed renovation, is much nicer than RMU or Niagara.
http://www.vonbrauncenter.com/construction/
Hubbs!
A push this year, yes, but was anyone surprised
As you noted, UAH felt the fate of an independent team: a terrible schedule. Limited home games meaning the team wasn’t kept fresh in the general public’s minds, and of those home games, they weren’t exactly super attractive:
Ferris State – most Huntsville fans have probably never heard of them or don’t remember them
then over a month
Providence – not bad in the hockey world but still doesn’t have great name recognition
almost another month
former conference foe Robert Morris
three weeks and two “home” games in Nashville
RPI – unless you really followed hockey, you’d likely never heard of them
the next week features the most cared about opponent on the schedule: Bemidji State
then it’s over a month and a half until the final two home games and they’re exhibition games against 17 and 18 year olds in games the UAH players are very likely to phone in
A.K.A. geoofisfoagoos
by geoffissiffoeg on Mar 22, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
That's why I said
hypothetical – I suppose I should have said “potential” for UAH.
As Chris says below, Huntsville has a great track record of supporting the Chargers. Heck, back in the (D-II) ’90’s, they had crowds in the 5-6000 range and sold out the VBC for National Championship games.
There is no doubt in my mind that, with a proper conference and either being the primary tenant at the VBC or the building of an on-campus arena, UAH would draw fantastic crowds again.
Hubbs!
I had been wondering about the conference tourney location myself
Chicago does seem to be the most central location, and being a Badger fan I certainly wouldn’t mind the proximity advantage it would give Wisconsin.
If they end up letting the league champion host, I wonder if it would be at the champion’s home arena, or if they would be allowed to pick another (presumably larger) nearby site. Would the Badgers host the tourney at the Kohl Center, or could they move it to the Bradley Center in Milwaukee? I don’t know what Penn State plans on using for their arena, but I imagine they would draw a bigger crowd if they hosted at the Penguins’ arena for the tournament. Just some thoughts.
Not likely
Larger arenas will not be willing to keep dates open for college hockey games that there is a strong chance to not happen. For instance, I can’t see Joe Louis being willing to keep a weekend open in case Michigan or MSU wins the Big Ten. Particularly as it will cause an unnecessary headache with NHL scheduling.
Also, Chicago’s proximity to Wisconsin combined with manageable drives from pretty much every Big Ten school (sucks to be PSU, but what can you do) and the large number of Big Ten alums there makes me think that it wouldn’t be a terrible location, provided the Big Ten goes the neutral site route.
I didn’t have this year’s numbers for UAH, and didn’t realize they had fallen that far, though it’s certainly understandable with the type of home schedule they get. But they’ve certainly shown they can draw more. In 08-09, they were 31st in attendance at almost 2700 a home.
The problem with the Bradley Center or Consol Arena is that the schools don’t own those buildings and would have to rent them out, and it would likely be difficult to do that on the short notice required.
home sites: not happening
since one of the factors driving this is money and the others are money, money, and money, there is no way the big ten will let yost or munn host. they will probably put it in chicago where there will be 100 fans and 200 corporate sponsors
100 fans?
Clearly you’ve never been to a Wisconsin hockey game. They average higher attendance than some NHL teams. Wisconsin fans will fill the arena for the tourney if they have to do it themselves.
Big 10 alums in Chicago
Walk around the north side of Chicago on a fall Saturday and I think you may change your mind. I can name 4 or 5 bars for each of 5 of those schools (not MN) that are FULL of proud alumni cheering on their football teams. Pretty sure they won’t have any problems with attendance at the AllState Arena or United Center. This is a BIg 10 city and people love their teams, regardless of the sport
Automatic bid
Why should a Big Ten hockey conference tournament winner receive an automatic bid to the NCAAs? If any other six division one schools set up hockey programs and a conference tournament, will they get an automatic bid, too? What have NCAA officials had to say about this whole affair? And what, in fact, is the NCAA’s responsibility here? Are they supposed to be looking out for college hockey as a whole, better financials for some schools over others or opportunities for newer programs to get going?
I believe in all sports all you need is 6 teams to be a conference.
They recently changes the stipulations for receiving an AQ to tournaments and this change is what allowed the B10 to get an auto bid. The old rule the was dropped said a conference had to have no less than 6 teams who had played together for the past 5 years. The best example of who this would have hurt is the WAC situation: if that rule was still in place to receive it’s AQ bids and bowl tie ins they would have had to bring in 5 teams all from one other conference.
Auto bid or not, the champion of a conference with Michigan, MSU, OSU, Minnesota, and Sconny WILL be in the tournament.
A.K.A. geoofisfoagoos
by geoffissiffoeg on Mar 22, 2011 9:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Rutgers grad here.
This is exciting! But, still complicated. I know the stakeholders in the WCHA and CCHA are still trying to figure it all out.
I’m hoping that Rutgers will one day have Div 1 hockey as Penn State has now. But, RU would more likely join Hockey East or ECAC, etc.
That is, unless the Big 10 hockey scramble results in a Hockey East/ Big East scramble… with Penn State and Notre Dame realigning somehow again.
All the same, thank you for including all the links.
